| |
| | |

Printer Forum   

 Forgot password?
 register
Search
View: 4041|Reply: 22

Calibrated Eizo FlexScan prints still to dark!

[Copy link]

Post time: 2015-7-12 15:36:36 |Show all posts
Please excuse my ignorance, I am having a hell of a time matching my Eizo FlexScan SX2462W to my prints, I have a Canon Pro 9500 MKII, I have an older Spider3 Pro calibration devise my monitor is calibrated with this device and I have set the brightness at 11, contrast 80, gamma 2.2, W/B of 6500K, I print with either Canon's DPP easy photo print or most of the time I print from Photoshop CS6 or Lightroom 5.6, I have no idea how to set up Photoshop for printing, I am talking about under view -> Proof set up-> then the Customize Proof Condition box, what should I use under device to simulate and rendering intent??? Do I need to change any other settings under Proof Set up such as: Working CMYK, Cyan Plate, Magenta Plate etc. Also I have Internet Standard sRGB, Monitor RGB etc. any assistance would be appreciated.
P.S. Under print set up dialog box I use Photoshop manages color and also use the ICC profiles for the paper I am using. not sure how to set up rendering intent or black point.

Post time: 2015-7-14 00:46:57 |Show all posts
DBCossini wrote:
Please excuse my ignorance, I am having a hell of a time matching my Eizo FlexScan SX2462W to my prints, I have a Canon Pro 9500 MKII, I have an older Spider3 Pro calibration devise my monitor is calibrated with this device and I have set the brightness at 11, contrast 80, gamma 2.2, W/B of 6500K, I print with either Canon's DPP easy photo print or most of the time I print from Photoshop CS6 or Lightroom 5.6, I have no idea how to set up Photoshop for printing, I am talking about under view -> Proof set up-> then the Customize Proof Condition box, what should I use under device to simulate and rendering intent??? Do I need to change any other settings under Proof Set up such as: Working CMYK, Cyan Plate, Magenta Plate etc. Also I have Internet Standard sRGB, Monitor RGB etc. any assistance would be appreciated.
P.S. Under print set up dialog box I use Photoshop manages color and also use the ICC profiles for the paper I am using. not sure how to set up rendering intent or black point.
Have you tried printing straight from the camera ajnd see what the print looks like? Sometimes photo editing and printing software do strange things. Of course you can't do much editing in camera, but if you can connect the camera to the printer you can at lieast check if the problem persists. If yes, it the photo might be underexposed originally. although I doubt that is the case.

Post time: 2015-7-13 22:48:26 |Show all posts
jrkliny wrote:
This is a common complaint and there is a simple explanation. ICC profiles are designed to match monitor colors and brightness to prints which are viewed under standard conditions.
I can see where you are coming from, but surely the aim of an ICC profile (with colorimetric rendering) is to produce a color on the print that is the same as that defined in the image file. In other words, the L*a*b* values on the print should be as close as possible to those in the image file. The printer profile can do nothing to affect the perceived white level of the print (L*=100) - only the viewing light can do that. Then, the perceived brightness of every other tone is related to the brightness of the paper white i.e. to the level of the viewing light.
We know that perceived contrast and color saturation decrease with decreasing illumination of a print so you may well want to depart from colorimetric accuracy if you want your prints viewed with lower illumination to look similar to the image you see on your monitor. But the way to do this is to adjust the image before sending it to the printer. You shouldn't expect the profile to modify the colors and tones to suit your taste and viewing conditions.

Post time: 2015-7-13 21:32:57 |Show all posts
mli20 wrote:
Jim Hess wrote:
If your prints are consistently too dark, that is an indication that your monitor brightness is set too high.
...And/Or that the ambient lighting level is too low.
Cheers Mogens
This is akin to saying the exposure is wrong, and getting the reply that the sun was too bright. The correlation here is that while you can control one, you can not control the other.
But in fairness, though you have a point, I don't think the OP is calibrating in total darkness. Thus my statement.
Peace
-- hide signature --New to this forum, not to forums!

Post time: 2015-7-13 20:12:52 |Show all posts
Jim Hess wrote:
If your prints are consistently too dark, that is an indication that your monitor brightness is set too high.
...And/Or that the ambient lighting level is too low.
Cheers Mogens

Post time: 2015-7-13 18:24:43 |Show all posts
......... I have made custom profiles for all the papers I currently use.
In the event that a prints turns out darker than I wish, I simply adjust my image brightness a bit toward the bright and that usually solves the problem! But usually no adjustments need to be done.
Joe.....
Joe, as usual your approach makes sense and custom profiles are probably the best solution.
With the huge number of printers and the amount of printing you do, I can certainly see making custom profiles instead of using ICC profiles.  Custom profiles could be set up to lighten prints beyond the ICC standards so that prints look better at lesser levels of illumination.
I have considered doing that but I already have all of my printing parameters programmed.  I believe I can also program Qimage for this purpose while still using standard paper/printer profiles.  At this point, at least for me, I find it easy to fine tune adjustments for each print by eye.
-- hide signature --Jim, aka camperjim
http://www.specialplacesphoto.com

Post time: 2015-7-13 16:51:29 |Show all posts
DBCossini wrote:
Thank you all for the wonderful support and advice, I will follow the advice given here, to Hugowolf I have a Canon Pro 9500 MKII by the way I use 3rd party Precision Color pigment inks, I know they are not exact match to the Lucia inks but they are so much cheaper it is a no brainer for me, I was thinking of upgrading my older Spider 3 to a X-Rite ColorMunki Photo Color Management Solution and profile my inks and paper in the hopes that this will help and get me closer to what I see on my display, will f/up with you all, thank you. '
In the digital print world, you will hardly EVER obtain a print that will look as bright and open in the shadows as you see on your calibrated screen. Regardless of what you may think, prints would have to be viewed under conditions that would hardly ever match your normal household lighting conditions.
The final goal is to produce a print with as complete a tonal range as possible and or course correct rendition of color. The final gold standard is the actual print which or course has to be viewed under the proper lighting conditions, temperature and brightness. You simply can not just hold next to your monitor and expect the two totally different sources to match. Monitors rely on back lighting which would equate to placing your print over a light box. Doing so would reveal shadow detail that would be impossible to see by reflected light.
I have 16 printers both dye and pigment based, All 13" and wider. All dedicated to photo printing only. All printers produce prints that have as wide a tonal range as the printer, inks and paper combinations can produce. I have made custom profiles for all the papers I currently use.
In the event that a prints turns out darker than I wish, I simply adjust my image brightness a bit toward the bright and that usually solves the problem! But usually no adjustments need to be done.
Joe
-- hide signature --MY VIDEO CHANNEL. PRINTING and personal videos.
https://www.youtube.com/user/cheo1949

Post time: 2015-7-13 14:59:33 |Show all posts
I had the same problem with many of my prints coming out too dark vs what I see on the monitor. I tried lowering the monitor brightness but that really didn't help much, it just made the image hard to see and color correct. What I finally discovered after much experimentation was that the canned profiles I was using were throwing off the brightness. By making my own profiles for all my papers I now have this problem corrected.
I use the Spyder3 Studio for both monitor calibration and paper profiling and it works fine, certainly much better than any manufacture's profile.
http://www.amazon.com/Datacolor-DC-S3SSR100-Spyder-Studio/dp/B002N2Z332/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1414592653&sr=8-3&keywords=spyder4+studio

Post time: 2015-7-13 13:27:54 |Show all posts
Everyone has given excellent advice but imo it seems that the basic issue has not been addressed.  The OP already has his monitor brightness turned down.  Chances are his calibration and color management are also correct.  I do not see any complaints about color cast.  Instead the complaint is that the prints are too dark.
This is a common complaint and there is a simple explanation.  ICC profiles are designed to match monitor colors and brightness to prints which are viewed under standard conditions.  The ICC standard for viewing is illumination with an intensity of 2000 lux.  Two thousand lux is extremely bright.  To put this in perspective, typical office/store lighting is about 250 lux.  A very bright display room or drafting room might have 500 lux.  If you placed a 100 watt light globe 18" from you print you would only be at about 500 lux.  In any case the ICC standards are set for extremely bright viewing conditions to facilitate careful review of the print.
Although we might want to perform a careful review at high illumination, few of us would want to display our prints under a bank of spotlights.  Under normal dim lighting conditions, prints often appear too dark.
There is no magical or technical solution to this issue.  It is usually not possible to turn down monitor brightness to make this problem go away.  Most monitors will not work well with the brightness setting less than 80.  In addition this is partly a matter of individual preference and often that varies with the subject of the image and the artists intent.
I have a workflow that works for me.  With a calibrated monitor set to brightness of 80, I perform my post processing adjustments so the final results look ideal on the monitor.  I then save as a TIFF.  If I want to display the image on the internet, I convert the color space to sRGB, downsize as needed, add borders if needed, add a small amount of additional sharpening, convert to a jpeg, and then post to the web.  For prints I start with the TIFF, my QImage is set for everything except brightness.  Typically I use levels.  I leave the dark and white points and change brightness to about 1.3.  The image should look about as bright as possible without reaching the point of looking washed out.
-- hide signature --Jim, aka camperjim
http://www.specialplacesphoto.com

Post time: 2015-7-13 11:52:19 |Show all posts
DBCossini wrote:
Thank you all for the wonderful support and advice, I will follow the advice given here, to Hugowolf I have a Canon Pro 9500 MKII by the way I use 3rd party Precision Color pigment inks, I know they are not exact match to the Lucia inks but they are so much cheaper it is a no brainer for me, I was thinking of upgrading my older Spider 3 to a X-Rite ColorMunki Photo Color Management Solution and profile my inks and paper in the hopes that this will help and get me closer to what I see on my display, will f/up with you all, thank you.
I believe you will be following good advice.PC pigment is good on the 9500Mkll.
If you do get a ColorMunki you will see an IMMEDIATE improvement. Especially if you make your own profiles for the papers you are using, regardless if they are even Canson, you WILL get better colour output from you printer/ink combination if you can get good profiles yourself.
Your output WILL take another leap forward when you use Lightroom to print, the latest version is astonishingly good for printing and the sharpen module is as good as it gets IMHO.
I also use Flexscan and you will get the best results if you screen is not set too bright, its counter intuitive but for most applications, around 80 is a better setting than 100, and over that in Eizo is IMHO WAY too bright to get GREAT results.
You may be lucky and get there fast, keep detailed records of the settings and paper, even time of day (ambient light) has a big effect on the output. It is just NOT possible to get a good check of your print output if you are not able to view the test print at the same light value as your screen.
Finally, when making profile patches with Munki let the print sit not for the 10 min that the program asks for, give them 24hrs. you WILL be amazed at how much more accurate the results are.
Good luck
-- hide signature --Andrew G

Post time: 2015-7-13 10:33:51 |Show all posts
Thank you all for the wonderful support and advice, I will follow the advice given here, to Hugowolf I have a Canon Pro 9500 MKII by the way I use 3rd party Precision Color pigment inks, I know they are not exact match to the Lucia inks but they are so much cheaper it is a no brainer for me, I was thinking of upgrading my older Spider 3 to a X-Rite ColorMunki Photo Color Management Solution and profile my inks and paper in the hopes that this will help and get me closer to what I see on my display, will f/up with you all, thank you.

Post time: 2015-7-13 09:10:12 |Show all posts
DBCossini wrote:
... I have no idea how to set up Photoshop for printing, I am talking about under view -> Proof set up-> then the Customize Proof Condition box,
...what should I use under device to simulate and rendering intent???
Under device to simulate, you need to choose the ICC profile for your paper and printer. You will need to set up, name, and save proofing for each profile you use, two if you use both relative colorimetric and perceptual.
Once you have them set up, you can toggle between regular viewing and soft proofing (with the currently select custom profile) with Ctrl+Y, and the out of gamut warning with Ctrl+shift+Y.
What rendering intent you choose, is dependent on the image. If you don’t often check for out of gamut colors (colors that are in the image, but out of the gamut of the output device), then perceptual would be the safest choice. Perceptual maps out of gamut colors into gamut by shifting other colors to make room for them in the gamut.
Relative colorimetric maps out of gamut colors to the nearest in gamut color. It clips out of gamut colors to the edge of the in gamut range. If your image has no out-of-gamut colors, relative colorimetric is more acurate than perceptual. Perceptual shifts in-gamut colors whether you have out-of-gamut colors or not.
I use relative colorimetric 99% of the time. The only time I use perceptual is when I have large areas out of gamut.
Bright yellow fall foliage would be an example of when you could have large areas out of gamut. Relative colorimetric could map all of the out-of-gamut yellows to the same (or similar) in gamut yellow. With relative colorimetric, you could end up with a swath of yellow and not be able to distinguish leaves. The gamut warning (Ctrl+shift+Y) is your friend here, and you can also use it (and the soft proofing) in the Photoshop print dialog.
If you want, you can always do your soft proofing in the Photoshop print dialog. There is nothing to set up there. Just select the correct profile and check Match Print Colors, and Gamut Warning if you want to check for out-of-gamut colors.
Do I need to change any other settings under Proof Set up such as: Working CMYK, Cyan Plate, Magenta Plate etc. Also I have Internet Standard sRGB, Monitor RGB etc. any assistance would be appreciated.
You have RGB images and are printing from an RGB printer. There is no need to mess with any of those settings. Yes, your printer uses CMYK inks, but it expects to be sent an RGB file. (What printer are you using, by the way?)
P.S. Under print set up dialog box I use Photoshop manages color and also use the ICC profiles for the paper I am using. not sure how to set up rendering intent or black point.
Normally you would want black point compensation checked. BPC curves the output of the darkest colors. Without it you can end up with very blocked shadows with little or no detail.
There is a bug in Photoshop, and for the perceptual rending intent, BPC is always on, it doesn’t matter whether it is checked or not. For relative colorimetric, you should have it checked. Lightroom does this automatically, you don’t have a choice.
Both the printing and soft proofing are much easier from Lightroom. I really don’t know why you would want to use Photoshop for printing, if you have Lightroom.
Brian A

Post time: 2015-7-13 07:30:44 |Show all posts
DBCossini wrote:
Please excuse my ignorance, I am having a hell of a time matching my Eizo FlexScan SX2462W to my prints, I have a Canon Pro 9500 MKII, I have an older Spider3 Pro calibration devise my monitor is calibrated with this device and I have set the brightness at 11, contrast 80, gamma 2.2, W/B of 6500K, I print with either Canon's DPP easy photo print or most of the time I print from Photoshop CS6 or Lightroom 5.6, I have no idea how to set up Photoshop for printing, I am talking about under view -> Proof set up-> then the Customize Proof Condition box, what should I use under device to simulate and rendering intent??? Do I need to change any other settings under Proof Set up such as: Working CMYK, Cyan Plate, Magenta Plate etc. Also I have Internet Standard sRGB, Monitor RGB etc. any assistance would be appreciated.
P.S. Under print set up dialog box I use Photoshop manages color and also use the ICC profiles for the paper I am using. not sure how to set up rendering intent or black point.
Suggestion:
Before spending money or pulling out your hair trying to isolate this problem, I suggest you download one or several known good test images and print them without modification.  There are several files easily available for download and threads on this forum give internet addresses for them.
Once you evaluate a known good images, in your printing system, you can more easily apply the appropriate corrections.
Good luck.
Marc

Post time: 2015-7-13 06:26:47 |Show all posts
if you truly need to print and soft proof .. then I humbly must ask you to read up on Color Management ( google pls ) You will need not just ICC profiling for your Monitor, but infact for any device that your image might be with in the chain of event lead to thge final print, typically that mean the camera / Lens / ISO combo ( and I mean individual camera / lens / ISO combo so if you have a specific lens on a specific camera, but you have 2 shoots that are shot at different ISO, they need different ICC ) , Display ( that's your monitor ) and your output ( that's your Printer / Paper / ink combo , change any you need a new ICC )
We can somehow forget the Camera / Lens / ISO profiling , as this is not really concerned here , but for your need you need the ICC for your display and your output, then ask PS to use them ( both in display and output , check the options m different PS version differs )
Then its possible to soft proof ( view how the print might become when truly printed ) Note also the Gamut. Some color you might be able to view but not print and vice versa. And finally you will always find your display more brilliant so don't expect 100% match ( the display is a transmissive medium and the print is a reflective one )
If you do not have the hardware to do proper printer profiling, try their stock profile or have some online service provider who can do it for you
-- hide signature --- Franka -

Post time: 2015-7-13 04:47:45 |Show all posts
Steve Bingham wrote:
I would set illumination somewhere between 80 and 100. THEN calibrate. Always set illumination first. I use i1 Pro.
Steve you probably meant this for the OP but addressed it to me. Good advice though.
-- hide signature --New to this forum, not to forums!

Post time: 2015-7-13 03:35:51 |Show all posts
I would set illumination somewhere between 80 and 100. THEN calibrate. Always set illumination first. I use i1 Pro.
-- hide signature --Steve Bingham
www.dustylens.com
www.ghost-town-photography.com

Post time: 2015-7-13 02:08:20 |Show all posts
Serhat Abaci wrote:
never gonna get adequat results with ANY spyder colorimeter... try to get a colormunki or used Eyeone Pro
-- hide signature --find me on Druckerchannel (german forum) http://www.druckerchannel.de/user_info.php?user_ID=36393
I know everyone is in love with X-Rite, and it is a good product, but to say you can't get good results with Data Color's Spyder system is a bit unfair, and mostly false.
You might argue that some programs are better, and that may be true, but it isn't true that Data Color's Spyder can't get the job done as well. BTW I use a Spyder4 colorimeter in conjunction with the SpectraView II software on my NEC monitor and I get great results.
I think the larger issue here is proper color management, and proper adjustment of the OP's monitor.
My two cents.
-- hide signature --New to this forum, not to forums!

Post time: 2015-7-13 00:36:17 |Show all posts
never gonna get adequat results with ANY spyder colorimeter... try to get a colormunki or used Eyeone Pro
-- hide signature --find me on Druckerchannel (german forum) http://www.druckerchannel.de/user_info.php?user_ID=36393

Post time: 2015-7-12 22:51:18 |Show all posts
DBCossini wrote:
Please excuse my ignorance, I am having a hell of a time matching my Eizo FlexScan SX2462W to my prints, I have a Canon Pro 9500 MKII, I have an older Spider3 Pro calibration devise my monitor is calibrated with this device and I have set the brightness at 11, contrast 80, gamma 2.2, W/B of 6500K, I print with either Canon's DPP easy photo print or most of the time I print from Photoshop CS6 or Lightroom 5.6, I have no idea how to set up Photoshop for printing, I am talking about under view -> Proof set up-> then the Customize Proof Condition box, what should I use under device to simulate and rendering intent??? Do I need to change any other settings under Proof Set up such as: Working CMYK, Cyan Plate, Magenta Plate etc. Also I have Internet Standard sRGB, Monitor RGB etc. any assistance would be appreciated.
P.S. Under print set up dialog box I use Photoshop manages color and also use the ICC profiles for the paper I am using. not sure how to set up rendering intent or black point.
First off if printing is really important to you, do yourself a favor and read up on color management so that you can 1) make sure Photoshop is properly setup, 2) your monitor is properly calibrated. 3) your prints come out are as close to what you see on your monitor as possible.
You might also upgrade your Spyder3 to Spyder4 Pro.
As to advice, there really is no easy answer to give if you're not color managing your system. And I say that based on what you stated in this sentence... "I have no idea how to set up Photoshop for printing" - If you don't have Photoshop setup properly, even a perfectly calibrated monitor isn't going to help you.
As to actually calibrating the monitor, you might not only go through the owner's manual for the monitor, but you might want to refresh yourself on the Spyder3 software. But really, in the end, a course in color management might be in order.
I could recommend a book: Fine Art Printing for Photographers. It has an excellent, easy to read section on color management to include setting up Photoshop, Printer settings (yes they have the popular manufactures there), and monitor calibration, as well as rendering intents. Excellent book for under 30 bucks.
You could also check out sites like this one: Understanding color management
Finally - Photoshop CS6 Color Management: Section 3 - Photoshop CS6 Color Settings. You might also check out the other sections, especially section 2 for monitor calibration.
Just trying to help
Good luck.
-- hide signature --New to this forum, not to forums!

Post time: 2015-7-12 21:37:31 |Show all posts
I recalibrated my monitor and the CD/M2 was already at 70!
You have to log in before you can reply Login | register

Advertise on OASQ.COM| Contact us| Archive| OASQ

2019-1-16 11:30 GMT-8

Powered by Discuz! 7.2

Release 20121101, © 2001-2019 OASQ.

To Top