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41.3 Unexpected Paper Size Error

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Post time: 2010-1-30 21:06:40 |Show all posts
I have a question about a HP Laserjet 4100 printer I have. The printer itself prints fine, but when I use Tray 1 to print on index card sized paper, and once its done printing, I get a "41.3 Unexpected Paper Size" error and the only way to stop showing the error is to hit the green button. I have tried selecting in the Paper Handling menu Tray1 paper size from Plain, to Custom, and Legal, but nothing.
I have the Tray 1 Mode set to Cassette (if i use First it will print from Tray2 or 3) and I have Tray 1 Type and Tray 1 Size set to the defaults. Anyone have any ideas? Thanks!

Post time: 2010-1-31 05:23:26 |Show all posts
Sorry Kevin, but I've already tried inputting the X and Y dimensions and I still get the 41.3 error. The thing is though, other 4100 printers we have in the company do not have the X and Y dimensions setup and it still works fine.

Post time: 2010-1-31 04:53:59 |Show all posts
First things first, if your printing custom size cards and your not sure of their size then thats normally the issue.
Tray 1 is normally used for any size any type media but you must specify the size and type in the printer driver and then the printer itself if your not using an ISO/DIN size.
Picking a size thats close but not quite right will result in a 41.3 error.
The primary media sensor will measure the timing of the media and therefore its length, this can be quite critical particularly on small media so before changing too much, ,just make sure tray 1 is set to its default settings then go from there.
Tray 1 can be set in PRINTING MENU, CONFIGURE CUSTOM SIZE = YES, then set the X dimension (the front edge of the media) , then set the Y dimension (the side edge).
If custom paper is loaded then it must be loaded in short edge first, for example 8" x 10" media (203x254mm) should be X=203 and Y=254 - loaded short edge in.
Tray 1 should be set to TRAY 1 MODE = CASSETTE and then TRAY 1 SIZE =CUSTOM.
Then its into the print driver, make sure the tray 1 settings agree with the media type and size and you should be sorted.
Sorry if I repepated anything, this threads getting long and I just read between the lines.
Most of this is in the user guide, if you need it just take a look at ...
http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bc/docs/support/SupportManual/bpl10335/bpl10335.pdf
It may explain it better (or worse) than I did here.

Post time: 2010-1-31 04:36:11 |Show all posts
Actually, I was wondering, would there be any settings to change on the actual printer itself that could reconfigure Tray1 Cassette/First settings? Maybe I touched something I shouldn't have.

Post time: 2010-1-31 04:31:13 |Show all posts
Hmm...maybe it is a bad drive if it keeps reversing like this. I'll try reinstalling the drivers to see if it helps. If not -- the users will have to live with pressing CANCEL JOB and then GO to clear the error.

Post time: 2010-1-31 03:37:15 |Show all posts
Will,
Afraid I'm not getting much in the way of results. 2 things are really puzzling me:
(1) “once its done printing, I get a "41.3 Unexpected Paper Size"”. That's the opposite of what should be happening. The 41.3 error should come up before the job prints rather than after. Other than what's in the manual, this is the only reference to it I can find on line:
http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/Document.jsp?lang=en&cc=us&taskId=110&prodSeriesId=83436&prodTypeId=18972&prodSeriesId=83436&objectID=bpl10328#N10139
(2) “I have the Tray 1 Mode set to Cassette (if i use First it will print from Tray2 or 3)” This is the opposite of what it's behavior should be. If Tray 1 is set to First, then it should pull from Tray 1 as long as there's paper in Tray 1.
I'm beginning to suspect possibly that there's a corrupt or faulty driver issue. I'd suggest comparing the driver versions on the computers that print to the other 4100n printers that do print this job as expected with the driver versions on the computers that print to this problematic printer. See if they're all using the same driver (PCL6, PCL5, or Postscript).
If they are, then pick one of the computers as a test case, re-set Tray 1 back to First, then use the "Automatically check to see if your driver needs updating (MS windows only)" link under the "Hot topics for this product" link here:
http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/DriverDownload.jsp?prodNameId=29120&lang=en&cc=us&prodTypeId=18972&prodSeriesId=83436&taskId=135
If they are not, try downloading and installing the driver on a test machine that matches the driver version on the computers that do print correctly. The page I linked to above is also the home page for driver downloads for your printer.
If that doesn't work, I'm out of ideas.
Where to go for further help:
(1) Contact HP.
http://welcome.hp.com/country/us/en/contact_us.html
(2) Post at the Business Support Forums (BSC). You posted at the ITRC (IT Resource Forums), and you're post's stale now, so I doubt anyone else is going to contribute. There's another HP forum that overlaps the subject material here, but in my experience attracts more knowledgeable experts than the ITRC does. Hang on to your ITRC user name and password, because you'll continue to use it to log in here. When you register for BSC, they use HP Passport, an entirely different log in system. You can join here by clicking the Register link near the upper left part of the page under the sign-in boxes.
http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/bizsupport/home.do?forumId=2&admit=-682735245+1167242393067+28353475
Sorry I couldn't be more help, and good luck with it. I'll continue monitoring your thread, but I am out of ideas on this.
Pat

Post time: 2010-1-31 02:51:16 |Show all posts
No problem, thanks a lot!

Post time: 2010-1-31 01:55:57 |Show all posts
Will,
Just FYI. I've been having a lot of problems getting in to the forums the last 2 days. I'm researching this and will post back ASAP.
Pat

Post time: 2010-1-31 01:51:34 |Show all posts
They use Microsoft Excel. And under properties when they print they select "Manual Feed" instead of the default "Auto".
Also, I tried selecting custom after measuring the card (x=5 inches y=7 inches) but it still gave me the 41.3 error.

Post time: 2010-1-31 01:12:49 |Show all posts
Will,
Just had a thought. What program are they printing the cards from?
Pat

Post time: 2010-1-31 01:10:46 |Show all posts
Thanks for the help, I'll try doing those tedious measurements (X and Y)under custom to see if it will work out.
Also, yes I did notice that on the working 4100's that the Mode was set to FIRST instead of CASSETTE. But like I said previously, when I did that it would pull from Tray 2 and 3 instead of 1. And yes, I do have a Tray3 installed (2 is Letter, 3 is Legal).
I'll let you know if the the Custom X,Y business works out.

Post time: 2010-1-31 00:19:39 |Show all posts
Will,
OK, here's what I understand so far, and the suggestions I have (just want to be sure we're on the same page):
-The model is a 4100N. I'm slightly puzzled by this because you mentioned a Tray 2 and a Tray 3 in your original post. The N comes with 2 trays, a Tray 1 (fold-out tray) and a Tray 2 (slide out tray). It's the 4100TN that comes stock with an additional slide out tray (Tray 3). I'm assuming you added an optional tray after you bought to get to 3 trays total. No big deal on your problem though.
-You prefer to use the control panel to make adjustments. I'm the reverse, so I'll dig in to the manual for instructions. Note that I'll post a link to the manual at the bottom of this reply in case you don't have one. I'm going to concentrate on what I think are your key issues here. The manual will discuss something then direct you to another page for details. If I tried to post all those referrals, this reply would be enormous. Note that the page numbers given are the page numbers within the document (in other words, HP's page numbers) rather than the page numbers of the downloaded .pdf file.
-On the affected 4100N, Tray 1 mode is cassette. This shouldn't have any affect that I can think of on a job sent specifically to Tray 1. But I'm also puzzled by your statement that "if i use First it will print from Tray2 or 3". That's the reverse of what I think it's behavior should be.
-You get the 41.3 unexpected paper size error AFTER you print on the cardstock rather than before. That puzzles me too. Usually I see these BEFORE a print job prints when the job specifies a paper size or type in a tray different from what the printer's been told it has in that tray.
-You've tried setting the Tray 1 size to custom. Note that you also need to define the custom size and the margins (this is why I was asking for the size of the cardstock). "Tray 1: ...If custom paper is loaded, set the size of custom paper from the Printing Menu to match the paper loaded in tray 1 (you may also need to set the type. I think you've been using plain? It may need to be set to cardstock if these are indeed cardstock). To print custom-size paper, see Guidelines for printing custom-size paper” on page 63."
Page 63 says "Guidelines for printing custom-size paper
Do not attempt to print on paper smaller than 76 mm (3 in) wide
or 127 mm (5 in) long.
In the software application, set page margins at least 4.23 mm
(0.17 in) away from the edges.
Feed short-edge first.
Setting custom paper sizes
When custom paper is loaded, size settings need to be selected from
the software application (the preferred method), the printer driver, and
the printer control panel. Settings in the printer driver and software application override control panel settings. (Software application settings generally override printer driver settings.)
If the settings are not available from the software, set the custom
paper size from the control panel:
1 From the Printing Menu set CONFIGURE CUSTOM PAPER=YES.
2 From the Printing Menu, select inches or millimeters as the unit of
measurement.
3 From the Printing Menu, set the X dimension (the front edge of
the paper) as shown in the figure above. The X dimension can be
76 to 216 mm (3 to 8.5 in).
4 Set the Y dimension (the side edge of the paper) as shown in the
figure above. The Y dimension can be 127 to 356 mm (5 to 14 in).
For example, if the custom paper is 203 by 254 mm (8 by 10 in),
set X=203 mm and Y=254.
5 If custom paper is loaded into tray 1, set TRAY 1 MODE=CASSETTE
and then set TRAY 1 SIZE=CUSTOM from the Paper Handling
Menu in the printer control panel. See “Customizing tray 1
operation” on page 69."
Page 69 says (everything leads somewhere else) "Customizing tray 1 operation
The printer can be set to print from tray 1 as long as it is loaded, or to
print only from tray 1 if the type of paper loaded is specifically requested. Set TRAY 1 MODE=FIRST or TRAY 1 MODE=CASSETTE in the Paper Handling Menu at the printer control panel (see “Paper Handling Menu” on page 210).
Setting Explanation
TRAY 1 MODE=FIRST
Means that the printer usually pulls paper from tray 1 first unless it is empty or closed. If you do not keep paper in tray 1 all the time, or you use tray 1
only for manually feeding paper, keep the default setting of TRAY 1 MODE=FIRST in the Paper Handling Menu.
TRAY 1 MODE=CASSETTE
Means that the printer treats tray 1 like trays 2, 3,and 4. Instead of looking for paper in tray 1 first, the printer pulls paper from the tray that matches type and size settings selected from the software. When TRAY 1 MODE=CASSETTE is set, an option appears in the Paper Handling Menu to configure size as well as type settings for tray 1. Through the printer driver, you can select paper
from any tray (including tray 1) by type, size, or source. To print by type and size of paper, see “Printing by type and size of paper (locking trays)”
on page 70.
As I said, I'm not going to try to follow all the page referrals, and I don't think I'm really helping you much so far. Wish I had a "magic answer" for you.
I think it's going to be a bit of a "slog" for you finding the right combination of settings to make this work. For what it's worth, I've usually been able to find the answers by digging through the manual, but I hate doing that and prefer the experiment first. Manual's a last resort for me, but you might have to use it.
At least I have one definite answer for you. You mentioned that "The thing that is different on the troublesome 4100N and other 4100N is that this one gives me the option of changing the Paper Type and Paper Size while the other printers do not." As per above "When TRAY 1 MODE=CASSETTE is set, an option appears in the Paper Handling Menu to configure size as well as type settings for tray 1."
Just so you know, I'm not abandoning you by suggesting the manual. I just don't have one of these here any longer to experiment on (we upgraded to 4350dtn printers from our old 4100's). I'm largely going by memory of 3 years of maintaining them. I'll be glad to give further feedback to the extent that I can.
Here's the link to the manual. The one you want is the "HP LaserJet 4100 Series - User Guide"
http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/DocumentIndex.jsp?contentType=SupportManual&lang=en&cc=us&docIndexId=179111&taskId=101&prodTypeId=18972&prodSeriesId=83436
Pat

Post time: 2010-1-31 00:08:48 |Show all posts
Yes, I did some research on the 41.3 error and it is when the printer gets a paper size different than what it was expecting. And no, I don't like using the web based TCP/IP config. I guess I'm an old soul and prefer doing it manually.
I'll have to measure the index cards they use. But I doubt it has anything to do with that since the other 4100's were never configured for custom, they just have it set on Plain and it works fine. The thing that is different on the troublesome 4100N and other 4100N is that this one gives me the option of changing the Paper Type and Paper Size while the other printers do not.
Also, it does not give me an option to choose "any paper size" like in later models.

Post time: 2010-1-30 23:19:30 |Show all posts
Thanks Will,
Basically, the 41.3 error comes up when the printer gets different size paper than it was expecting, which implies that someone's set a paper size in the printer for Tray 1 without your knowledge (I believe the default is any size, any type on the 4100n).
Another couple of questions have come up based on my research.
(1) Can you find out what size (3 X 5 or whatever) these card sized paper sheets are? And, are they card stock, or are they just plain paper, or?
(2) Do you normally configure this printer using the built-in web server through Internet Explorer, or do you normally use the control panel?
Note - if you're not familiar with using the built in webserver, it's easier and faster. Assuming your network's TCP/IP and you have the printer connected to the network, just put the printer's IP address in the address bar in Internet Explorer and Go.
Thanks,
Pat

Post time: 2010-1-30 22:46:51 |Show all posts
Its a 4100N to be specific.
Not too sure what the sizes are, its some
custom-cutted index card the users use to print. I went around to other 4100N printers that the users use to print the same way -- but under those Paper Handling menus, there is no Tray 1 Type or Tray 1 Size options, only Tray 1 Mode and it is set on FIRST (not on cassette, like the 4100N that is giving me problems.
Hope this helps.

Post time: 2010-1-30 22:26:39 |Show all posts
Oops, clicked submit too soon.
And also, just to confirm, is this the base model 4100 or is it:
4100dtn
4100n
4100tn
4100mfp
Pat

Post time: 2010-1-30 21:47:19 |Show all posts
Will,
Are those 3X5 index cards or some other size?
Pat
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